Service providers have unique business challenges that require them to build sustainable business infrastructures. In this episode, Bethany talks with Cat Ford-Coates about how to go from just scraping by, to being seen as a trusted expert that not only commands high rates, but also delivers results with high-touch service.

BIO

Cat Ford-Coates discovered her love of Photography in southwest Florida at the State College of Florida which continued to her scholastic career in Boston, MA; and it has since spawned into a lifelong adoration and now business(es) in North Carolina and Florida.

Cat is an award-winning Photographer and filmmaker (2021 Telly awards, 2021 The Communicator awards), accredited Fellow Master Photographer with The Portrait Masters, and holds this designation as one of twenty Portrait Photographers worldwide. She specializes in boutique campaign design and development for entrepreneurs as well as Fine Art and Creative Portraiture for individuals and families.

She is a speaker and educator, in 2023 a co-host for The 12 Month Startup on The Portrait System, and photographs clients worldwide. In addition to her local clients, she has photographed clients in: Bali, Venice, Italy, Barcelona, Munich, Paris, London, New York, Phoenix, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Charleston, Mexico, and Costa Rica.

Cat and her work have been featured by affiliates for FOX, NBC, & CBS, as well as in Photographic circles with: The Portrait Masters,The Obsidian Studios, Savage Universal, Infinite Color Panel, The Color Lab, Vlada Backdrops (NYC), and has judged for the largest photography print competition in the world with WPPI/EmeraldX now My Icon awards.

Her favorite moment with her portrait clients is when they see their tangible artwork for the first time. They always hold their folio boxes close to the chest and their artwork they cannot help but stand back in awe. It truly is the moment they see themselves as the person they’ve always been meant to be. That transformation wouldn’t be possible without her diligent pursuit of Mastery through continued education and the love of her craft as a Portrait Photographer.

“I think that branding is probably the fastest way for photographers in the portrait space to scale, because portrait is scary for people.”

– Cat Ford-Coates

Transcript

Hey there, and welcome back to another episode of Unbreakable Brands, the podcast where we dive into the resilient strategies and mindsets behind successful women led businesses. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Cat Ford-Coates, pronouns she/they. Cat is an award-winning photographer and filmmaker, accredited with the Fellow Master Photographer, the Portrait Masters, and holds this designation as one of only 20 portrait photographers worldwide.

Her work has been featured around the world with major press like Fox, NBC, and CBS, as well as in photographic circles, including Obsidian Studios, Savage Universal, and The Color Lab. She specializes in boutique campaign design and development for entrepreneurs, as well as fine art and creative portraiture for individuals and families.

She is truly an expert in building sustainable business infrastructure for service providers, and that’s exactly what we’re gonna be talking about today on the show. So, thank you Cat for your time and energy that you’re giving us today.

Oh, thanks so much for having me.

I always like to start by talking a little bit about your Entrepreneurial journey or personal journey. I got to hear a little bit about this when we were at The Summit, but I’d love for you to give a glimpse into what was your journey to get into photography, first, and then what were some of those big challenges in those early days of diving into a fine arts space and a service provider space.

So I was in food and Bev for 12 years. I was a bartender for nightclubs through fine dining, restaurant management, bar management. And you know, I learned a lot in that space. I learned a lot about customer service, and how to have kind of a high touch process for my customers, whether it was somebody sitting at the bar in front of me or portrait clients.

The last year in food and Bev, I was like, I should be a grownup, and I got a job managing a restaurant instead of just turn and burn cocktail bar, martini bar, which is what I had been doing for about six years at that point. And I went and I got a restaurant management job. I was GMing for this family place.

And then, you know, they let me go about 11 months later, and the business itself was a family owned business, and they were closing, I was the most expensive person in the room at 30K. And so I was like, okay, I’ll go back downtown and get another job. And nobody would touch me. I’d been gone for a year, and my following was gone and I was 35 and you know, like I was too old.

So instead of getting one job, I got four, and it was just fill-in gigs, right? Like, so I was just bartending at this place. One of the places, you know, we refer to it as like where you put bartenders out to pasture.I had a regular there and he said, “Cat, you like to take pictures. Would you take some photos of my buddy and I for our match.com profiles?” And I was like, Oh, okay, sure. Cool. And like, we went out to a lake in the middle of the afternoon and for the photographers listening, like, you know, that’s a shady situation. Like hard sun, middle afternoon, it was awful. But we had a good time and you know, at the end of the session, he went to hand me 50 bucks and I was like, no, I couldn’t.

This was fun. I appreciate you. And he’s like, “Cat, I would pay you for Budweiser. It stands to reason I would pay you for this.” And I went, Oh, you would pay me, wouldn’t you? Okay. And so that’s really when I started building a portfolio. I started second shooting for other photographers in the area and just building out some experience.

But after about two years of really trying to get it to catch 300 there, 700 there, 50 bucks there, I was like, I’ve got to make some money. So I found a mentor that helped me like work out a sustainable process for a standard of sales, a standard of service in addition to actually being able to be creative.

And that was really what I’d been missing. I was sort of treating all of my pricing like a restaurant would, right? So you in, in the world of restaurants, you’re typically pricing by like three or four times your hard cost. And that’s just not true in the photo space. You have to structure much differently because it’s not just about a coupon for Ruth’s Chris, but no offense to Ruth’s Chris, right? Love me some beautiful steak, but it’s just a different business model entirely and takes different skill sets and different overheads. And really uncovering what that looked like was probably the biggest turning point was once I realized how to make money that meant that I could explore creativity and so on and so forth.

And then you went and got all these awards and did incredible things, which is so cool.

I wish it were just like point A to point B, but my portrait studio has been in motion now for 12 years. And it’s crazy to me because now I’ve been in photo as long as I’ve been in food and bev. There was a lot of identity that I carried in being a bartender, just the same way as I carry for being an award-winning photographer and now a mentor, right? There’s a lot wrapped up in who I am in those different spaces. And yeah, it feels like I started my business, you know, just a couple of years ago and really like my business is going into middle school.

I feel that I’m in. I’m in a similar space, but yeah, it’s never point A to point B. It’s always a roller coaster of figuring out the next step for sure. So I didn’t mean to minimize that. You worked really hard to get there for sure. So, I want to go back to talking about the sustainable structures, because many service providers, whether you’re a photographer or you have a massage therapy studio, I think there’s a big struggle in the space with scaling your business, right? And because it relies on client turnover, depending on the service, you’re not necessarily having the opportunity for retainers at a frequent schedule like in other cases. So I think that it really needs a specific model that is repeatable and sustainable and not product based. So I love to hear, I mean, I know you’ve scaled your studio to 20k months and beyond, and that’s kind of like the number that’s thrown out there. I don’t know that there’s a specific way to attach to it, but it’s thrown out there a lot in the service provider space. So I want to hear your approach to getting there and the the structures that you have in place that made that attainable for you.

The thing about creatives is we have both a service and a product base that we have to put together. Our products can be physical and tangible and artwork on the walls, but they can also be digital, you know, like the Department of Revenue North Carolina considers digital products taxable because like their physical products. So that’s sort of a way that, that we have to manage that. But it’s in like combining those two things together to have a high touch service for them. It’s not just shooting and just throwing a USB at somebody. It’s really about creating a service that allows us to expand. So, yeah. Yes, it has to be replicable, right?

And so associate photographers can come into the mix. I think that the highest month the studio has done outside of education has been $80,000, but like that was three different photographers moving plus, you know, selling and really trying to grow. But that was probably the max that we could handle as a team at that time. But it does include like. What’s the word I’m looking for? The retainer clients, right? The ones who are working with you every month or every quarter, coming back again, going on location with them, having them in the studio.

I think that branding is probably the fastest way for photographers in the portrait space anyway to scale, because portrait is scary for people. It requires that you put your faith in whoever it is that’s shooting to make sure that you are seen the way you want to be seen. And that’s why so many of us struggle with the, I’m not photogenic. I don’t know what to do with my hands. I always look bad in pictures. You have to have somebody that’s an expert guiding you. And that’s not to knock like documentary portrait; I think documentary portrait is beautiful. But when we’re talking about everyday clients, and then you start speaking into the branding space, people need a reason. To call a portrait photographer, right? It’s not like weddings where it’s like, okay, I picked my date. Let’s find all our vendors, babe. Right? Like it’s now it’s, well, why, what do I need to call a portrait photographer for? So you have to give them a reason, right? And so branding, I’ve always referred to it as, you know, headshots are a gateway drug, right?

People can justify a significant spend on their business, and that’s at different levels for different people. So instead of just creating, just come in for your headshot and rah, rah, rah, right? Like we actually created a process that allowed them to build like a year’s marketing campaign, right? And almost like eliminate a marketing agency because people don’t understand marketing, right?

They’re like, I need a headshot for LinkedIn and I’ll do it again in seven years. Not quite, but building in those service pillars, right? Like design consultations and styling advice. And this is how we shoot when we shoot in studio. This is how we shoot when we shoot on location. This is how we handle image selection.

In my world, the client is in full and complete control of the imagery they take home, right? I’m never going to be the photographer that just throws everything on a disc and is like, Fly! Be free! Right? Like, before we even get to the shooting component, we’ve actually mapped out what your goals are, what your vision is. And we’re going to shoot in multiple looks to really create a wide variety for them to choose from that allows them to get exactly what they want and everything else goes away. Once that process had been created, it was, have you heard of the Kaizen method?

No. Tell me about that.

Kaizen is a Japanese philosophy—it was actually adopted by Toyota—that it’s about like, these are the values, right? And this is what we want. Here are the pillars of that thing. And it’s continued refinement, right? So when you come in, like, with the photographers that I work with, they come in and they sort of devour all of the material right away and try to put everything in place right away and like, get out there and start making money.

And then their clients are going to show them exactly where their gaps are, right? What they’re avoiding, what they maybe didn’t want to do, la la la, or just where it’s not strong. They don’t fully understand why this pillar’s in place. Why is this step part of the process. So you just come back and continue to refine each of those pillars in that system to make that system stronger over time.

And so like in the Toyota space, right. And Toyota, please don’t kill me if I’m wrong here, but it’s, you know, like. affordable cars, dependable and reliable that are aesthetically pleasing, right? It’s not Rolls Royce. It’s not BMW, but they’re dependable. They know they’re going to show up. They’re mechanically sound. They look pretty good. And that’s what they’re and they’re affordable, right? They’re accessible to middle America. So every time they release a new line, those are the values that they’ve set in place. So anything that they do in that design has to meet that criteria. It has to support that criteria improving over time.

It’s no different in a service base, right? Like if you’re doing a design consultation, how can you make that more powerful and impactful for your customer? How does that support empower them to sell more? Right. And how does that empower you to sell more because of it?

And so that’s sort of the approach that, that I take with the business. It’s just constant refinement and making sure that these pillars are always met. And this is how we do business. And it’s scalable by either adding new people or adding repeat clients on retainer that you just work with over and over again.

You said so many important things in there. I mean, obviously I’m gonna stick to the piece that you said about branding was the most important cause that’s a big part of my belief system as well, is that the brand strategy and the branding can inform your brand as it evolves over time. And if you don’t have values and you don’t have messaging in place and things in place to provide a structure, then it can be a little loosey goosey and not be as scalable. So I think that’s so essential. And I love that you said it evolves over time because you’re gonna turn around and be like, oh, that’s what I thought. But wait a minute, that’s not what they thought, you know? So it’s like market research isn’t just something you do beforehand. It’s like we did it one time, we asked our people, and then we’re good forever in time.

We never have to ask again, which is not true in any way at all. So I love that you included those pieces in there and that you’re scaling through either adding team members or retaining folks, but also I think you mentioned something in there of you’re solving problems. People don’t even necessarily think about or know they have when they’re considering portraits ahead of time. Like you’re having styling as an option because maybe they wouldn’t think of that until two days before. I’m like, what the fuck am I going to wear? I don’t know what to wear. What am I going to put on my body? What goes with my brand? And like, so you have a structure in place ahead of time where they’re thinking about that. So it’s so much more intentional, which is something I really love about your work.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, everything is intentional and it really started to come to light as the more I started coaching as in the Kaizen and making it stronger and refining over time. It also helps to educate your retail clients as well. Because if they’re not aware of opportunity or problem, then it’s not even on their radar to try and solve it. So you make them problem aware, but you also are the solution. Whether we’re talking about, what do I wear? Because what you wear in the everyday might not necessarily be something that 2D.

And you know, one of the things I’m like, look, when we go out in the world and we get compliments on that maxi dress six ways to Sunday. If there’s not a belt on it, you just look like a walking triangle in a photo. Because you take on the shape of whatever it is that you’re wearing. So if it’s loosey goosey, as you said, right, like it can, it can make you feel like, oh, I look like that. And you’re like, no, but in photo it will show up differently. So we educate them on the problems and this is what you avoid. This is the solution.

So that they feel prepared because here’s the thing. If somebody doesn’t trust themselves. Right? How could they possibly trust themselves to make a decision that’s going to potentially cost them thousands of dollars? Like plural. So our job, and I don’t care what business you’re in, is to constantly be educating about not only your process, but the benefits to them. So that when it comes time to make a sign here, please decision, they are so confident and empowered in themselves based on the information that they have. They know everything. There is no gatekeeping, like they’re empowered to say yes and then thank you for it. When you run at something and just throw images at somebody. Like, you’re not doing them any favors. They don’t know what to do with them. Be the solution. Teach them.

And to that point, when you’re talking, I think there’s a lot of talk within the space of they have to trust you. They have to find you authoritative and credible, which is all true. But I loved your twist of they’re going to do that because they trust themselves in their decisions because they’ve been educated and that’s the kind of like, let’s take it back to the beginning of what needs to happen structure that has to be in place, I think, for service providers to get to that point of trusting you. It’s like more than the portfolio. It’s more than like, look at my beautiful work. And I think you know, there’s a lot of other working pieces in there too, which you talk about quite a bit on your, in your own content too.

Creatives, we all want our work to speak for itself. We’re like, see, isn’t it beautiful. Oh my God. Don’t you want it? And to some extent that is true, especially when we’re talking about branding, right? Because those visual assets speak for you before they see a lick of copy, before they ever meet you. So there is something to be said about work speaking for itself.

But the way you produce that work in a space where it’s for commissioned clients is through a collaborative process. You are an authority in your space. Teach them how to embody that for themselves. When someone is empowered, they’re empowered in more ways than just like, yeah, I’m confident today. I feel awesome. Right? Like they make different choices. They show up differently for the people that they care about. Like it makes the world a better place. To have people who do feel confident in themselves, that confidence has a ripple effect that’s global. It’s that butterfly effect. And that comes from being educated about process, about themselves, about healing, about understanding.

And I don’t care what business it is, whether we’re talking about a creative business, a service based business, a product based business. The bottom line is that business is a separate entity from who you are and it requires revenue in order to thrive the same way you need oxygen and food and water. Revenue is acquired through a client feeling confident in knowing and understanding and appreciating the value of that service or product to solve the problem that they have. You take that education piece away and it’s just ego. And nobody does the know/like/trust game with ego, because that’s only authority. And that authority is built on a house of cards.

Yeah. Gave me chills. Absolutely. I think that’s such an essential lesson to pull away. For your coaching, clients that you bring in separate from what you do already, I just want to run through the bullet point fears they’re bringing in and then how you respond to that because I think that’s a big part of this too. One that would immediately come to mind from service providers is like there’s so many other people doing what I do. How do I stand out? You answered the one I want. I just wanted you know, my work to speak for itself. I just want to do the thing and not anything else. Talk me through that a little bit.

So probably the biggest issues that I see there’s the comparison game, right? There’s so many other people doing what I do. How do I possibly stand out? Well, if there are so many other people out there doing what it is that you do, now you’ve got proof of concept. There’s a market for it, right? Instead of looking at them and being like, I can’t do this because blah, blah, blah. Like, no, you can see it’s possible. But at the same time, you have no idea what their business model is. And in the photo space, there are 248,000 and change photographers in the U.S., and that’s across all genres. So weddings, events, portraits, fashion, commercial, the whole gamut. Only 8 percent of photographers in this entire country are doing more than $100,000 a year in gross revenue. Portrait is 1 percent of that. There are 2,500 portrait photographers in the U.S. doing 100k. That’s bananas to me. But it requires that you hold a professional standard of pricing in order to reach that.

And if it’s only 2,500 out of 250,000, then everybody else is fighting over 200 an hour, 300 sessions. And after taxes, after overhead, and I don’t care if it’s a side gig or if it’s like a full blown business, your overhead and your taxes are going to eat through 65 percent of your revenue.

So that other 35 percent is what you get to keep. And when you start doing the math of how long it takes to and from location, shooting itself, prep information, phone calls, emails, and editing, let alone delivery, marketing, all of the other things that come with being a business owner, you’re going to find out that fighting for those 300 sessions means that you’re making like $7 to $20 an hour. Exhausting. No one will pay me that. Nobody will pay me $1,000. Want to bet? It’s crossing that bridge of finding the value enough to command those higher rates so that you can be sustainable and still be in the market three years, five years from now.

So I love action steps. You’ve given so many good golden nuggets here. But what would you say to the service provider, let’s say their photographer there at that point where you were initially they’re taking 200 gigs here and there and they’re like, you know, in that struggle zone other than obviously going into your coaching program, what are the first three things they need to get in place they need to get right and start thinking about to get to a point where they’re sustainable, it’s scalable and they can do this in the long term?

I would say first and foremost is you have to define what success looks like for you and for your customer, right? So there are two different things happening there, right? Because most of us come in, we’re like, I just want to shoot and get paid. Cool. But you also have to keep some of that money. And you, if you don’t get to keep it, you have to look at why. So you have to understand what success looks like. Because success might look like you just shooting and sometimes getting paid and you just kind of keep it as a hobby that you sometimes get paid from. But the second you create a business, you have to start treating that business like an extension of you.

And you have to know what success looks like for that business. And success might just be one client a month. Okay. Step two, how much does it cost to just simply exist for that business? Right. Subscriptions, accountants, service providers, Adobe Photoshop, all the things. How much does all of that cost you?

All right. Well now you know that you have to at least make that much and then double it for taxes. And say, all right, that’s, that’s what I need to earn from that one client every single month. Step three is connect and get attention because you have to get attention in order to get business. A lot of people think, well, I have to get business and that’ll have something I can market with.

It’s like, Nope, doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to get attention in order to get the business. For somebody to say yes to you, you have to have proof of concept. Proof of concept is a portfolio. Proof of concept is marketing with that process system.

Yeah. You can’t build it and expect people to come to you. That’s not a truth. It’s not, not quite how that works. I love that. And you have to do the math, which I know as a creative myself. That’s not our favorite thing to do, but we have to do the math.

And you know what? I used to be in that space where it was just like, I don’t want to look at spreadsheets. I don’t want to do QuickBooks. I don’t want to, I don’t want to, I don’t want to. But when I started tracking everything every day, right? How many reach outs did I do? How many of those turned into sales conversations? How many sales conversations turned into bookings? How much money did those bookings make?

That data, looking at it every single day, showed me where in my process I needed to strengthen. Do I need to be better at sales? Or do I need to be better at networking, getting in front of more people? Do I need to be better in the sales room? Then I could gamify it. But numbers don’t lie.

It’s true. It’s going to put you where you need to be, give you the focus. And also, I mean, there is a point where your grit and your resilience, like, have to be embedded with your creativity if you’re going to take it into a business, which I see that often as a big challenge for service providers who are creative or good at service.

Their specific thing in that a lot of people like it, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it translates to you’re ready to run it as a business because there are just as many people out there who need associate, you know, whatever your businesses photographers as there are people who are ready to run the business, you know, and I think that it’s okay to be at a point where you lean one way over the other at any point.

Sure. Well, you know what? We’re humans, right? And everybody has their, their strengths and their weaknesses. And I think it’s really important to know, like, are you not great at something because you simply don’t have the capacity to be or because you’re avoiding it because that avoidance is allowing you to sort of ignore and brush under the rug the things you aren’t ready to deal with and heal yet.

Leadership requires that you address a lot of this because your sales will be reflected by what you’re avoiding and that’s always what’s in your heart. So when we are not ready to come to the table for the grit and the tenacity that sometimes it takes to get in front of people and market, like, you know, hustle culture is dead, but that doesn’t mean that you aren’t required to take action to generate revenue for your business. And so you have to understand, is this a skill set I need to improve upon? Or do I need to shine a light on what it is that I’m avoiding here? So that I now have the capacity to become this version of myself that is successful at this thing so that I can get where I want to be based on the success that I defined for it when I start out?

Yes, oh my gosh exactly and in avoidance we find comfort like it’s a comfort zone, and so if you’re gonna shine a light on it, like you said, it’s uncomfortable most of the time that kind of threshold has to be crossed at many points. I’m still doing it I’m sure you’re still doing it. Like I want to put it out there for anyone listening. This isn’t like Okay, we, we’ve battled all our demons and it’s just perfect forever. No, they’re still there. They just change forms. They evolve like your brand evolves. They evolve with you.

Absolutely. No, but you know what? When you shine a light on shame, shame doesn’t get to exist anymore. When you take shame away, you can really, you know, examine what it is that you have been avoiding. And that’s not to say you have to have a party and all of your closest friends and clients have to be there while you look at this thing, right? Like, that’s not, that’s not what I’m saying at all. But when we ignore it entirely, that’s going to become the reason that we aren’t able to achieve X, Y, or Z because that’s what we need. That’s the piece of the puzzle.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Oh, I love that. That’s so good. To wrap our conversation here, I want to hear from you. Do you have exciting things on the horizon? What’s going on with the studio and the coaching? Where are those headed? Give us a little bit of insight into the behind the scenes with you.

For the studio, like, I have significantly increased my price point so that I mean, I’ve always, you know, raised and raised and raised every year, but raised it to a significant level at this point to where the people that are choosing to work with me are doing so because they want to work with me specifically with that comes a little bit more creative freedom in that process, which is really exciting. Because now it really is more about like the creative side of things versus the recipe, right?

They want your mind. They want like what you’re going to do. Cause they’ve seen it for so long.

Yeah.

That’s the value of brand equity right there.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, I love that term. I haven’t heard brand equity before. But for the education, it’s interesting. You know, I’ve been mentoring portrait photographers now for about six years, and on another platform. And I sort of graduated from that in January of this year and had launched my own platform that’s been growing and kind of evolving. And I think what I’m seeing is the evolution of that is pretty exciting for me because it’s not just, Oh, here’s this one high ticket program. It’s really more like my creative process. I’m putting into this content creation, teaching people how to do what I do. And it’s forcing me to look at it more from a forensic space versus just, here’s what I do, here’s the SOP, go, go, go. Like, I have to look at it from, here’s the self value component, here is the sales psychology component, here’s the logistical component, and then serve that to my students and have them sort of unwrap it and integrate it into their own businesses.

And watching them go from $3,000 a month to 10, and then from 10 to 20, is wild because good people do good shit with money. And so many creatives, especially are so like their avoidant tendencies are in the sales and the money side of things. And once you shine a light on that and realize like money isn’t what makes you a bad person, you can do so much for your own creative development, your own communities.

And so watching that unfold and grow has been really exciting, because now I get to see people like appreciate the impact they’re having with their clients instead of just pulling their hair out trying to get paid. And that’s a really cool bridge to watch somebody cross.

That’s so good. And now that you say it, I have never found that to be untrue, like creatives, especially women in general, but creative women, there’s never a barrier to give back or to spread like what they’ve learned or to take their money and go do incredible things like that is not the barrier initially, like what they do with money. Is it is so powerful and so impactful. And I love that ripple effect and that’s so beautiful.

And like you had said at the start of our conversation, there truly is, like, if you’ve been in Cat’s space in any capacity, there’s not gatekeeping. And I think that’s worth mentioning here as she’s talking about a mentorship coaching program, because I see that, uh, often as a marketing tactic, like here’s my secrets.

And you’ll never find them out unless you pay me X amount of money. And then here are four steps of this five step process, pay me $1,500 and I’ll give you step five. And you’re like, just give them the information. Like when people are looking for coaching, you know, I remember being in this space, you know, my first mentor, was Sue Bryce. I overdrafted my checking account by $35 to purchase a $200 program from her. You know what every responsible business owner does, right? But that was a lot of free courses and webinars and watch this being taught live for free. And then if you want to have it in your library, then you pay for it.

Like all of that stuff, when somebody comes into a coaching program, they need the information, of course, but they also need the accountability and they need the community. I’m happy to give the information away because the information is only 60%. You need perspective and support and somebody to explain things to you and other people alongside of you because iron sharpens iron. It’s the information. Yes, it’s valuable. It’s life changing. But at the same time, it’s not enough by itself. If that were true, we would all just be Google millionaires.

Yeah, we really, I mean, this is literally the information age. So there is another component to this altogether. But I do love that about the way that you show up as your brand and the way that you share, it really invites people in. So if you’re not in our space and you’re listening, you should definitely take a look around. So on that note, where can people find you? What are your handles, your websites? Where can they get into all the things, whether it’s portraits? Or the mentorship.

So the studio is Atelier Unforgettable, and the coaching is under Cat Ford-Coates on Instagram and Facebook. And then the website itself for coaching is thestudiotakeover.com. And then for the studio is youunforgettable.com.

Amazing. Amazing. And I’m going to link all of that in the show notes along with whatever Cat’s got going on at the time that we released this episode. There’ll be something fun linked in there. So you should definitely just check it out. Oh, for sure. Anyways, at the time. So thank you so much for your time and your energy today and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate you being on the show.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. This has been fun. I always love just talking like philosophy and business. So I appreciate you.