What does it really look like to be the breadwinner working from home? Jen Davis pulls back the curtain on her micro-agency model, 24-hour work week, and the systems that let her earn full-time income while being present for her kids.

BIO

Jen Davis is the Founder & Creative Director at her brand identity and web design micro agency, Hello June Creative. She and a small team of experts in design, strategy, and web development create laidback luxury brands for creatives with humble hearts and big visions. She is the host of Better: The Brand Designer Podcast (currently in its 12th season!) and the mentor behind the 1:1 and small group business program for designers The Design Minimind. When she isn’t designing, you can find her on a four wheeler with her 5 year old son, playing peek-a-boo with her baby daughter, folding a mountain of laundry, hunting for beautiful packaging at Sephora, or needlepointing something beautiful at home.

TRANSCRIPT

Bethany: Welcome back to the show, everyone. Today, I’m going to be chatting with a very special guest. Her name is Jen Davis, and we’re going to be talking about what it’s like to be a breadwinner as a woman working from home, as a mom who has an agency, but a part time schedule still bringing in a full time income. So you’re really going to want to hear from her. Jen is the founder and creative director at a brand identity and web design microagency called Hello June Creative. She and a small team of experts in design, strategy, and web development create laid-back luxury brands for creatives with humble hearts and big visions. Thanks so much for being on the show today.

Jen: Thank you so much for inviting me on, Bethany! As you know, as someone who guests and also runs their own podcast, it’s so fun to step into that guest role and be able to talk a little bit more about myself. I always feel bad kind of bringing in, I try not to talk so much over my guests when I’m bringing them on, but I have so many thoughts and so it’s refreshing to be able to come on and just share a little bit more about more of the personal like family side of business because I feel like that’s not something that people really talk about too often because it can like come off a certain way and there’s a lot of like emotions and like feelings tied up in it. So I’m excited to kind of pull back the curtain and just share a little bit more about our family’s experience with this.

Bethany: Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly what I want to get into today, especially because a lot of my episodes are like visibility tips, like things you can immediately take action on. We’re not always diving into- there’s like a, you know, an action step too, for like building a home life that’s super supportive and taking on different roles in a family dynamic. And so I’m really excited to hear from you today. But I want to start with backing it up to this idea of breadwinner because that’s in the title of the episode. It’s thrown around a lot. Do you remember when you first heard the term or what you thought about it growing up? Like what is your kind of backstory around that word itself? Because I think it carries a lot of weight for people.

Jen: For sure. I don’t really love the term like breadwinner because for me and my husband- so I guess backing it up, we’ve been married for almost 10 years. We have a one-year-old baby girl and a five-year-old boy who just started kindergarten. So our marriage is long. And we’ve also been together since high school. So I’ve always seen our relationship as a give and take. For example, when he was in the military, he was in the army. He had a very demanding schedule. He was away a lot. My studio was fledgling and I was kind of navigating building that up while working part-time. Not really making a ton of money off of it. But like it was just a little bit extra for our lifestyle at the time and we always lived off of his income fully and then my income was just like, you know, down payment on a new car or a used car from Carfax, you know, like, you know how it is. And so I feel like the word breadwinner has a lot of connotations around like, pride and ego and like, just this way of like, like a bragging type of, ‘I’m the breadwinner’, you know. And that role has shifted back and forth between me and my husband over the course of our marriage. And it’s looked different in really every season.

That’s kind of one thing that I wanted to preface this conversation with because on the front end, it can seem like, ‘Oh, I’m the breadwinner.’ You know, it’s like this big, weighty thing. But it just so happens that in this season of life with our kids, the way they are, you know, where we live, we live in a very rural area with not a lot of job opportunities. And also with the state of my studio being just very able to produce the type of income that we need to live on as a family and also giving me the flexibility to be there for my kids so much throughout the day. It just makes sense for me to spend that time doing the studio, making the money, and for my husband to be a stay-at-home dad in this season. And I know it’s not always gonna look like that. I don’t necessarily see this as, ‘I’m a career woman, and I’m never going to be home full time.’ I’m sure that there are going to be times in our marriage or with our kids, and maybe we’ll move. Maybe my business will slow down. Maybe it won’t be able to generate as much income as we need to support our family. And we’re flexible. We can balance all of that stuff. I feel like there’s a lot to uncover with that term, but that’s kind of my philosophy around it. If that makes sense.

Bethany: Yeah, it makes total sense. I mean, I think there’s- like to me, that’s a true partnership. You know, you are talking about it together in equality of like what’s going to serve the family best. I think the term breadwinner can be like- and putting it in the title, because I think it is important that more women can like associate being a breadwinner as a woman in a household, which is not common. And so I think that dynamic to support that for any women stepping into that role or taking that on. Because it does come with pressure. 

Jen: So much pressure.

Bethany: Like I was in this position when, you know, my partner was unemployed for a long period of time. It comes with pressure and responsibility. That’s a big weight, I feel like. And so being able to talk about that as women, too, when we also tend to be historically caregivers and there’s like that kind of balance too that’s happening in the family, it’s like an important thing to just put out there so that other women can feel supported in that. So when you’re thinking- I was going to say, you’re thinking about that, like, how are you balancing the feelings between it all? Have you had some, like, stories or conversations around that that really supported you?

Jen: Yes, the fact that you just asked that I was about to tell a story about this conversation that I had with a guest at a wedding that I was at recently. You know, weddings, you go, you don’t really know a lot of people. So you end up telling everyone your life story if you’re like me. I mean, and they were interested, you know, I like to read the room and I won’t go too into it. But like, you know, this one person was just asking me like, you know, what do you do? And I feel like that’s such a, this is an interesting question I feel like that happens more in the West. Like I’ve heard that other cultures, like you’re so not defined by your occupation and the way that you are in America, which like, I mean, that’s just interesting to me. But like, that’s like the first question really when you meet somebody, what do you do? Rather than like, how do you spend your time? Like I’ve been actually trying to shift my conversation towards how do you spend your time so that it’s not as like occupational focus, I guess.

But she asked me, we were just talking about what we do and stuff, and I was standing there with my husband, I was like, “Oh, I run a brand and web design agency.” She was like, “Oh wow, that’s really cool.” And I was like, “Yeah, it’s great, it’s flexible, I get to work part-time hours and be with my kids.” And then she turned to my husband and said, “Oh, what do you do?” And he was like, “I’m a stay-at-home dad.” And she was like, she kind of glitched for a second, and looked back at me and was like, “Wait, so you work part-time hours, and you’re a stay-at-home dad?” We were like, “Yeah.” And like, she was like, “Wow, that’s really amazing.” Like, moments like those remind me how unique this is and also like how grateful I am for this current setup that we have in this season of life. 

But like, there’s also been- I’ve not necessarily had conversations with people that have been judgmental of it or anything. But most of the time, people just kind of do a double take and are confused by how are you able to work part-time hours, but your husband doesn’t do anything? I mean, not that he doesn’t do anything, he’s a stay-at-home dad. So he does way more than me. He does way more than me. He carries the mental load of the household. He’s doing the grocery shopping, the cooking. He watches our baby daughter while I work. So it is more of a confused moment for some people, just because it’s not as traditional, which is okay.

I think in terms of gender roles specifically, I definitely do still feel very traditional, which is a very interesting dynamic because it’s not traditional to have the woman be like the breadwinner of the family. But I definitely still feel like- it definitely is hard for sure being like hearing my baby cry in the other room, even though I know she’s so well taken care of by her dad. He’s like the best caregiver to her. And I know that she’s safe and taken care of. I just, it feels so just against my natural instincts of wanting to like to go stand up and like go tend to the baby. Or like if I have to miss school pickup or something, or I don’t really have to miss a lot because of my job’s flexibility, which is really nice. But I definitely do feel that like pressure of like, ‘Oh my gosh, I wish I could just like sit down and like not have to like turn the work brain on and like just be with my kids’, especially if like they’re sick or we’re traveling 

Bethany: Sure. 

Jen: Or like I just- I feel that like a natural inclination to like to do the mom thing, which is like- I’m not saying anything about the way that other people run their families or lives. I mean, everyone can do what feels best for them, but I definitely feel like I’m a breadwinner trapped in a stay-at-home mom’s brain. That makes sense. And there’s definitely this push and pull of this feels unnatural for me. And that’s something that I’ve had to work on, really, because I know ultimately in my soul, I don’t think that I would be 100% fulfilled if I was a stay-at-home mom. I just have this drive to work on my business that I just love. And that’s not to say that stay-at-home moms don’t have that drive or passion, but I know that this is the right setup for us. So it’s definitely very complex, as you can see.

Bethany: It is, but I think that’s an important thing to talk about because I think many women struggle with balancing ambition and the drive and doing and then, traditional roles, roles as a parent, and not even to say that like you were like, ‘I feel a traditional role.’ But I was hearing that and I’m like, I feel like that’s the parent pull. 

Jen: True.

Bethany: That’s just like wanting to be like present for your kids, which is like, you’re just balancing so many roles, which is a challenge for so many people. Especially, I just want to add a layer that I think it’s especially true in entrepreneurship, because you also have multiple roles inside of your business. I know you have a team, it’s not like- you have a podcast. You have all these other roles that you’re stepping into all the time. So there’s all that like up and down and that sort of thing, which is, I think, hard.

Jen: Yes. The switching between the hats too. 

Bethany: Yes.

Jen: Like I’ve heard a lot of people give advice about like, before you go on ‘mom mode’, I call it ‘mom mode’, ‘business mode’ and ‘mom mode’- before you like stop your work for the day and go on ‘mom mode’, like you should have like maybe like a two to five minute just buffer time where you can like stand up and get away from your computer, like go have a snack or go to the bathroom or just something where you can kind of like mentally switch gears. I feel like I don’t do that very well because like every minute is just so- like I use every minute of my working time like- it is like I don’t really plan it out but like it’s being used. And so that’s something that I do struggle with too is the switching between okay, like logical brain like let’s get go, go, go, get everything done, and then the drastic change to little kid life- which productivity is not really like a huge focus. Like you have to leave the house messy. I mean, I get to be on the floor playing with my baby and giving her all my attention. I get to just leave the dishes in the sink because I know I’ll be able to clean them up later or my husband will do it or something. I feel like that’s one of the things that I struggle with most in this season is just switching from being on and doing a sales call or being in pitching mode or reviewing my financials to reading the same book a million times for my baby because she’s like excited, you know, and like, and having to like speed up, speed up, speed up, cram it all in and then slow down, slow down, slow down, really try to enjoy the moment. 

So, and I know that that’s like a natural push and pull and a natural challenge. And I know that life won’t always be like this. And I’m really just trying to love it for just those little moments in the day to day. And also love my business too, not look at it as something that’s taking me away from my children, but looking at it as something that’s giving me the opportunity to be there for them more than I could if I had a traditional 9 to 5.

Bethany: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that it’s like that flexibility piece. And I’d love to hear, because I mean, I think a lot of people listening might really want to step into a role like that, or have more of that freedom and flexibility in whatever partnership they have. So when you were making this shift to full-time income, fewer hours to get to this place today, what are some strategies you put into place or what was like the path that brought you here? Because I know you’ve also been in business a while like I have, so it’s not like it’s just, I don’t want anyone listening to be like, ‘and you know, two months later’, you know what I mean? So like, maybe you could walk us through some of that and then the strategies you put into place that make this functional and work for you.

Jen: Of course. So I think I’ll start with an overview, a short roadmap of my time, because I think that that’s the key piece, I think, for anyone listening. And I used to do this too when I was listening to podcasts. Like, ‘Oh my gosh, why doesn’t my life look like hers? Like, what does she know that I don’t know?’ And yeah, there’s things that I know. And I’ll share some strategies, and I’ll share my business model in a second. Time is really one of those things that you can’t cheat. You just have to go through it, make mistakes, do things the wrong way, pivot, go through slow seasons, almost quit your business, want to burn it all down. I feel like I’ve been through all of those things. So I’ve been in business for seven years. I freelanced for a few years before then. I’ve been designing for over 10 years.

In the very beginning, I thought that I had to work 40 hours in order to be “legit”. I don’t know- I think I say I don’t know where I got that from but I got it from my experience in corporate-

Bethany: Society.

Jen: From society- the Monday through Friday thing. And this was pre-kid. This is when I had no other responsibilities. If I was not sitting in my chair at 9 AM, I was feeling anxious. And that’s like my first thing for anyone who’s like, ‘How do I change this?’ Take a good look at your working hours and what you’re doing during your working hours. Because before I had children, I thought I was busy. I was working 40 hours a week. What was I doing? Who knows- like I truly don’t know. 

And now I have a very intentional 24-hour work week. I work Monday through Thursday. I’ve had summer Fridays for three years- the three-day weekend every weekend for three years and it’s changed my life. It’s amazing. My son actually goes to a school that’s Monday through Thursday. 

Bethany: Oh!

Jen: So he thinks Friday’s a weekend day. He doesn’t know, he’s never known anything else, which I think is awesome. 

Bethany: He’s going to need to be an entrepreneur too! 

Jen: He really truly is- yeah, I don’t think corporate’s gonna work out for him.

But yeah, so a couple years into my seven year career, I started realizing that I was losing out on work because of my availability. And that happened after I had children. That happened after I reduced my working hours out of necessity because of my husband’s work schedule and how much childcare we could afford at the time. 

And I started losing out on leads. People started saying, “Sorry, I’m going with someone else that has sooner availability.” And that’s my number one thing for people that are like, ‘When is it the right time to hire?’ At least for a service-based industry- hiring someone not like an admin or VA support person, hiring someone to do the work in your company. We call it white label in brand design, but as a subcontractor, you know. And so I started strategically hiring subcontractors and I could not run my business model today without that microagency model. 

So microagency meaning I’m the only full-time employee. I never have to lie in bed at night awake worrying about making payroll for my employees because that’s something that I worry about for my own self and for my own family. I’ve always promised myself that I never want to put myself in a situation where I have to choose between paying myself and paying an employee. I just- I could never do that to someone else. I don’t want to do that to myself or my family. And so with the structure of the way that brand and web design works, we’re not really on retainer models, although you can have retainers of course in your studio. It usually is mainly larger high ticket flat fee projects that last for a few months and then end. So it’s harder business model than something like social media management, I would say, where obviously there’s going to be hard things about every industry, but you can forecast your revenue out a year, because you know how-

Bethany: And you can, yeah, and contracts are like six or 12 months. Yeah, yeah.

Jen: Exactly. So you have that secured revenue. You can hire really without worrying because if you lose a client, it doesn’t matter. Just go out and get another one to replace them. True for brand design too, but it’s harder to forecast your revenue in the future. And that’s why that microagency model works so well for us. So yeah, I just went out and got some- made some connections with people I already knew in the industry, started figuring out how much could I pay them? What are people going to say yes to? Some people were like, “Oh, that’s way too low. I’m not going to sign on for that.” I’m like, ‘Oh, okay, I need to pay more.’ Sometimes people are jumping at the opportunity. Yes, it’s like, “Oh, I’m going to pay a little bit too much.” Just really kind of feeling out what that ideal payout looks like so that my subs feel very well compensated and my projects are very profitable for my studio because I’m paying taxes. I’m paying all of my fees. I’m paying my subs and it’s usually multiple people on a project- a lot of different moving pieces. 

So that model is what allows me to run my studio the way I do today and we work with anywhere from 10 to 15 clients at a time and I don’t have any other employees. I get to retain a lot of the profits in my company. My company is very profitable for which I’m very grateful. I never really have to worry about being in the red or like inventory holding or payroll or some of those like big expenses that I’ve seen other people struggle with in different business models. 

So yeah, those things, figuring out when it’s the right time to hire and making sure that you have the right team members and you’re looking at your profitability margins. That’s a little bit more technical in terms of finances, but that’s literally what allows my studio to run the way that it does.

Bethany: Yeah, I was gonna say that’s literally the most important part. 

Jen: Yes, yeah, if you don’t have that then I mean you can’t do anything.

Bethany: Yeah, and I’ve talked about this before too, because I’ve made the mistake of jumping into hiring too soon. I also made the mistake of hiring too many people on a project. So knowing your end numbers and what’s coming out, and then also your own fees is so important. I’ve even tried hiring a subcontractor on a retainer model so that they have more reserved availability for you. And that also has not worked in terms of projects. It truly was better for me to do project-based fees or hourly fees than that. Because sometimes you don’t book as many projects in one month, and then what’s happening here? So it kind of puts you in a weird place. So it’s just an essential number to know, for sure.

Jen: Yeah, my subcontractors are completely project-based, they’re flat fee. I do have a production designer that works as a subcontractor on an hourly basis, but that’s non-project related. Sometimes she’ll hop in on like making mockups or putting together a concept presentation or building out some collateral or something, but it’s less like I’m hiring you to build out this Showit website and more like the piecemeal, the social media. I mean, it’s really studio operations that that is under. And so if you’re- if you’re listening or wondering about, ‘Okay, well, how do I, how do I know?’ I say for project-based stuff, flat fee. For ongoing studio operations, hourly. And that has worked out really well for us.

Bethany: Yeah, amazing. And at any given time, do you kind of have a core set of five subcontractors? Or what does that look like for how many people you’re working with?

Jen: For sure. So we have a little bit of a unique setup where my production designer also functions as my main white label subcontractor. So she has two different- not two different rates, but she’s got her hourly rate for production design. And then she has the briefs and the payouts that I send out as pitches to her for white label subcontractor stuff. So if she’s not available, I have a few other people that I work with on, you know, more like secondary. So not that I don’t like them as much, but she just has more availability and she just is in the studio’s operations day-to-day. 

Bethany: Great. 

Jen: So I feel like that’s great- I mean, I’m probably paying her the same amount that I would a full-time employee, but I am protected in case of I need to take time off or the studio doesn’t book a lot or whatever. So that’s for design. 

And then I have a network of about three illustrators that I reach out to specifically for illustration because I have a very illustrative style in the studio and they’re able to do illustrations way beyond anything that I could ever do on my own. And so they make our work better, which is great. And so I pitch to them based off of style fit. They’re all very similar, but they all have very unique skill sets and fortes that I try to match to a project that I think is going to be a good fit. That doesn’t always work out. I write it off. It’s in the wash. 

Some projects are like the client is really nitpicky and takes a lot of revisions and some other projects- “Hey, illustrator, actually the client decided that they don’t even want an illustration. So I’m actually just going to pay you up. Like we’re just going to pay you as if you did the project and we’re just going to move on to the next one.” So there is a little bit of like nuance there in finding that. 

But then I have a Shopify developer that I work with exclusively and she is also white label. For large projects, I’ll do what I call side-by-side where the client hires me for branding and web design. Then her company actually takes over the development portion of the project because then she gets to PM. It’s all about like, I can PM Shopify projects up into a certain scale. 

Bethany: Yeah. 

Jen: If it gets way more complex than that, my PM abilities will actually hurt the project rather than helping it. And so that’s when I, then I determine a side-by-side. But for smaller Shopify projects, I PM it and she’s my white label sub. 

So that’s the structure of the team members that I have and we manage everything through Slack. You know, they’re all in Slack-

Bethany: Oh yeah, same!

Jen: “Hey, so and so, I’ve got a new brief, are you interested? Here’s the timeline.” And one challenge that I feel like I’ve come across that I’m really, really trying to work on, especially going into 2026, is making sure that I’m giving- just the time. Giving my subs enough time to be able to think about it or book it into their schedule. 

My sweet spot has been, I know- I love being able to book subs a month out. That is perfect. Sometimes it doesn’t work out that way and I have to book them maybe a couple weeks or maybe like, “Hey, are you available next week?” But I really try to not be like haphazard like last minute. I want to be a positive experience for them as my client is for me. Like I see myself as their client basically and I want to be a good client for them. 

So I talk a lot about this actually in my new one-to-one mentorship called Scale with Confidence for brand and web designers- all about hiring and scaling and how much should you pay out? What should your briefing process look like? All that type of stuff. So I’m sure Bethany will be able to link that in the show notes for you guys.

Bethany: Yes, I absolutely will, because that’s an essential skill that I probably could have used like four years ago. But we’re in a good place now.

Jen: Same. Like, this is not to say that like, I have been perfect at this forever. Like, I feel like I’ve had so many- like, I’ve made so many mistakes. I can go into that if you want to hear like, things not to do. Pay people too much, lose on revenue. Hire people that need a ton of handholding when you don’t have time. Hire people that just want to learn from you and they don’t want to contribute.

Bethany: That’s my big one, hiring people who want the same exact business model as you was my biggest mistake. Because I’ve straight up had people just take everything after a couple of months and roll. 

Jen: Yeah. Yeah, they’ll take your IP. It doesn’t matter if they’re under contract. Yeah. 

Bethany: Yeah, take it all. And you’re like, “OK, well, that’s not- yep.”

Jen: Now you’re using all my templates and everything. Yeah, no, I’ve definitely been there too. And that’s a red flag I actually look out for on interviews now is- I want to learn from you. That’s actually a red flag for me. Even if it is coming from a good place. It’s like, tell me a little bit more about that.

Bethany: Yeah, what are your goals? Yeah, I totally get it. I mean, and you have to do it in a way to protect your business, for sure. It’s the only path forward. And now, and I’m sure you feel this way too, because it sounds like you have your one core person. I have people that I’m just like, “I want you to stay with me forever. You’re amazing.” And we just flow and work so well together. But it took a while to get there. So I think some patience in the hiring process is so key too. 

Jen: For sure. 

Bethany: And then also knowing capacity for me was important, knowing capacity of myself, how many projects can I manage and creatively direct, because I’m actively writing the brand strategy still. I’m actively in the creative process and still give my team capacity to do it too. So sometimes I am booked up and I’m booking out two or three months. And that’s good. But at the same time, it’s also that feeling of- how you get people in and they’re like, “I want to start now.” And you’re like, “how about- can you wait like a month? Can you?” And it always like works out that way. But sometimes you have to set all those parameters around it too for everyone’s time so that everyone’s happy.

Jen: Yeah, knowing capacity is a really big challenge that I think I’m still learning. I think it’s probably not really ever going to be a problem that I fully solve because of the nature of our businesses. Every project is so different and sometimes it’s really hard to scope on the front end how much time and how much white label power—specifically with e-comm, with Shopify, those projects. 

Bethany: Yeah.

Jen: It’s almost like you don’t know, you don’t know until you’re in the middle of them. And that’s even true for someone like me that I would consider myself very experienced with PMing Shopify projects at this point. There’s still stuff that I’m like, ‘Oh, I should have asked that earlier. We should have sent that over earlier.’ I should have known to ask that. And I’m like eating cost of apps and stuff like that. So I think that’s normal.

Bethany: Yeah, like connections, yeah. I think that’s all very—like I always am like, try to put that out there for the client too, especially if they’re like a new product or they’re launching with multiple products. It’s like, “Okay, we’re gonna uncover some things or you’re gonna want something functionality wise and we’re gonna, you know, we might need to put that on there.” But I, yeah. 

Jen: I just put it in my contract now. I’m like, this is going to grow and we will not bill you for anything that you haven’t approved, but just keep in mind that there are going to be things that are out of scope.

Bethany: Keep in mind. Yes, yeah, e-commerce is hard that way. I’ve had a challenge explaining that to some clients in the past because I have separate pricing. E-commerce has to be more than a WordPress site or a Showit site, period. 

Jen: Oh yeah, way more. 

Bethany: And sometimes folks are like, “But why is it so much more?” And I’m like, “Let me lay it out for you.” But also, it’s a lot more work. Yeah, the value.

Jen: Yeah, oh yeah. But also the value. 

Bethany: Yeah, the value.

Jen: There’s, I mean, there is a direct financial correlation between someone having an amazing e-commerce site. There is- for both of them for sure, but like you can see the actual numbers in the Shopify backend. 

Bethany: Yes. 

Jen: And so there’s, I mean, that’s your moneymaker versus like a marketing website, of course, being more of part of the marketing funnel. It’s like, “You cannot make money unless you have your Shopify store.” So yeah.

Bethany: Yes. Yeah, literally. Literally you can’t. 

Okay, I want to switch real quick because we haven’t talked about the hours and I want to make sure we get to that. So you work a part time schedule, full time income, Monday through Thursday. So like lay out what does a Monday through Thursday look like? Like how much are you at your desk in your chair? Like how are you juggling that?

Jen: For sure. This is something I love creeping on with other people. So I’ll go in detail for you guys, because this is, I’m always asking people like, “Okay, like when are you running your dishwasher?” 

Bethany: Literally. I want the details.

Jen: So this actually just goes back to my amazing husband and the fact that we have this beautiful partnership that I could not do this without him. And so I recognize that there are probably a lot of people in a situation where they don’t have that support at home. And so I just like want to caveat what I’m about to say by the fact that like I have another adult human being that does not have to go to a 9 to 5 that is basically the manager of the household and also stay-at-home dad. So I’ll give this and then I might give like a little peek into what it looked like before that. 

He does AM routine with the kids Monday through Thursday. I do AM routine with the kids Friday through Sunday. So he gets to sleep in every weekend day. I get to like, I sleep until the baby wakes up on the weekday mornings, which is anywhere between seven and eight. So she woke up, for example, this morning at 7:10. I woke up at 7:10 and got her- like did the baby morning and everything. He’s got Ryder packed up, ready to go to school. He drives him to kindergarten and then he’ll usually like work out on the way home and I do my breakfast, baby breakfast. During that time I’m like getting ready. Usually try to shower at night just so I don’t have to shower while I’m like watching her. Showering schedule is actually so important to like the day to day. It’s like when can I shower?

Bethany: It is so important. I’m a nighttime shower person.

Jen: Yes, like when I like getting in bed all nice and clean. So I am like getting dressed and brushing my teeth and just doing all that like personal hygiene stuff while she’s playing or whatever. She’s 10 months old so she’s able to sit on her own and like play on her own and stuff like that, but she wants me to be in the room. I’m not leaving her in another room or anything to go for a long time to do something else. So she’s right there with me. 

This morning she was playing with my stash of tampons in my bathroom. I was like, “I need to brush my teeth- here, take these.” She thought they were really fun. So I was like, okay, whatever you gotta do.

So Dylan comes back probably around nine. That’s usually when I get started working. Sometimes I’ll just  sit and have breakfast with him or we’ll watch a YouTube video together and just like try to keep it slow. But if I’m in a really, really busy season, I’m like off to work. I sit down. I work from 9 to 2 pm. Those are my like typical, like in office hours. I do not allow calls before 10 AM and I don’t allow calls after 1 PM so that I have an hour buffer on either end in case I need to prepare for a call in the morning. Like I need to review a questionnaire before I hop into a call or at the end of the day- like if a call goes a little bit later, I don’t want the call running over into ‘mom mode’ hours. So having those two hour buffers on either side I found works really well. 

Mondays are call days. I stack my calls all back to back so that I only really have to get ready and be on video like once a week. 

Bethany: You do?

Jen: The rest of the week I can just be in sweats and not have to put makeup on or you know just don’t- not that you have to but like I just don’t like having the pressure of like, “I have a call- like a sales call today, like I want to look presentable or whatever.” They’re all back to back on Mondays.

I will of course be flexible if people need different days. It’s not like you can’t talk to me on Tuesday, that’s fine. But that has been a game changer because I don’t have to switch brain modes as much during work. Tuesdays are usually like heavy design days. Wednesdays I do a little bit more admin stuff. I’m always doing admin stuff. 

Bethany: I get it.

Jen: PM is a lot of what our jobs are now as agency owners. So a lot of PM, a lot of team management, giving team feedback, internal refinements, all of that type of stuff. Client emails do take a long time and I don’t have a studio project manager whereas a lot of other agencies do have a project manager. I function as that role right now. I’ve gone back and forth as to whether or not I want to hire a project manager but I just- it’s working really well for us right now. I don’t necessarily feel like I need that expense, but I don’t even think if I had a project manager, I could even take on any more work because we’re just so maxed out.

Then Thursdays are delivery days. And this has changed the way that my business runs. Clients receive deliverables on Thursdays. They provide feedback by the end of the day on Sunday. So if they want to do it during their work week, they have Friday to do that. Or if they want to spend time doing feedback on a weekend, which many clients choose to just like get their work done, then be able to spend time on their like internal stuff, like maybe over the weekend on Sunday night or something like that. Feedback is always due Sunday night and then we hit the ground running with the next week Monday. 

Projects always start on Monday because they have a kickoff call. It’s extremely regimented and those systems are what allow me to have such a large capacity. If it was chaotic and I had different, like, ‘Oh it’s on Tuesday, this is due on Wednesday’ and blah blah blah- all my subs have their due dates a week out from when my client needs to see the deliverable. If we’re doing a website or something, those pages are due to me the previous Thursday. So then I have either the weekend or like Monday to provide feedback to the sub, then they can do internal refinements, then it gets into the client that next Thursday.

After 2 PM I go pick my son up from school. So dad does drop off, I do pick up. Usually I’ll take the baby with me because she like has already taken her nap. Then we’ll like go do something fun, like yesterday I wanted to go pick something up from Hobby Lobby and like we went to the Starbucks drive-thru or we’ll just like- and if it’s nice we’ll go to a park or something just kind of be outside for a little bit. Come back, play at home, have an after school snack, bake something together, and then Ryder goes to MMA and Jiu Jitsu in the evenings. Dylan takes him to that little after school activity. I stay at home, hang out with the baby, do baby dinner, bath time, bedtime, and then Ryder comes home, eats dinner. Dad does bedtime with him most of the time because I’m rocking the baby to sleep, so it’s just a give and take. And then we are extremely lucky that both our kids go to sleep by 7 PM at night-

Bethany: Wow.

Jen: and so the rest of the time is like we just hang out and like chill and then usually we’re in bed by like nine or ten. So yeah.

Bethany: II love that. Okay, thank you for the deep dive and being actually detailed because I think that’s so important. I love the regimented week of when feedback is due. That’s so smart. You were saying that and I was like, ‘I need to do that.’ I know my projects are very regimented, but I don’t have the feedback days. So yeah, I love that.

Jen: Yeah, defining clearly when client feedback is due within the client timeline. And this happens before the project even starts. In the client portal, I have a timeline that I write out. It’s for major delivery dates. I don’t necessarily do like, I have to get the refinements back to you on this date because refinements are like, that’s the puzzle piece where it’s like, sometimes there’s a lot of refinements, sometimes it’s approved on the first run, you know, so I don’t really put that in there. But when the first asset is due, and when the client needs to provide feedback on the first asset. That’s what I put in there for the timeline. That’s worked out really well. I used to be way more granular with it, and I was not keeping up with it. But then any less, and I don’t know, like, “Well, when is this due?” If I don’t have that due date, then I don’t know when to schedule my team to turn things into me. So I used to be able to just fly by the seat of my pants, it’s just me, get it done, or whatever. And that’s great. But now that I have a team, I need to tell someone when they need to turn something into me. And I have to have that date set in stone.

Bethany: Mm-hmm. Yes, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I love that. I love that it’s a singular day, like a Thursday. Because mine’s always like two to three days. And so sometimes it varies based on when they’ve started a project. So now I’m like, ‘I think I’m going to change that.’ That would not be hard for me to change. It would be like one sentence to do that one thing. 

Jen: Do it. And then Thursday is delivery day. So I’m in that head space of I’m combing through work from my subs. I’m preparing files. I’m recording Looms. I’m in my HoneyBook. I’m sending it all off. And then it all gets sent off at once. So then your to-do list is just all waiting status. 

So then that actually allows you to really take a break over the weekend. Friday, maybe the client will be really great and provide feedback right away, like most of the time it’s a couple days before the client’s able to get to it and provide feedback. And during that waiting period, I’m like, I have a Brick, so I like Brick my phone, I’m not checking my email, like I’m off Instagram, I’m like really, really present with my kids. Like that has, it’s great, you should try it.

Bethany: I love that. I will. I love this. This is so helpful. Okay, what’s a Brick? Sorry. What is a Brick?

Jen: Okay, so a Brick is a physical magnet that you put on your fridge and what you do is that it connects to your phone’s screen time app and you can have certain apps blocked until you hold your phone physically up to the magnet to like “unbrick” it. So rather than like deleting and re-downloading Instagram, which is what I was doing a lot and then you lose all your drafts and it’s like a whole thing. I put my phone on Brick mode to Brick out Reddit, Instagram, Threads, Substack, Chrome, Gmail, Slack, Notion, anything that’s fun, that has notifications that I can check and get that dopamine hit. That’s all grayed out and I physically cannot click on those apps until I walk up to my fridge and hold my phone to the magnet. 

And so having that physical barrier versus just typing in a screen time code or deleting and redownloading the app actually forms that barrier between those apps and it allows me to still be able to take my phone with me to like call or if in an emergency or whatever, but like I’m not checking my Instagram at a red light. Like I’m not like getting these Slack notifications from my mentees and stuff. And so it really helps me divide the time between ‘mom mode’ and ‘work mode’

Bethany: Oh my God, I love this. Okay, I literally had never heard of Brick, or a brick, or whatever. Yeah, that’s cool.

Jen: Yeah, anyone listening you should guys go look at it- I’m not an influencer, I don’t have a code but like you can go and look it up and I used to think it was so dumb. I’m like, “You seriously don’t have the self-control to not click on Instagram?” No, I didn’t have the self-control to not click on Instagram. I need a brick. I need something that will physically- and you know what? It’s great for bedtime and waking up. What was I doing before bedtime? Scrolling. What was I doing the first thing I woke up? I mean, if I woke up before my baby, scrolling. I was starting my day with just this like junk in my mind of like Instagram, emails, business, like, because it’s so- it’s right there. It’s so easy to just pick up and scroll. 

Now I wake up, my phone’s Bricked. If I really want to check Instagram, I’ve got to get up out of bed and go walk to the fridge, which I’m not doing. So it’s actually great. And I can listen to my audio book. I can watch Peacock. I can watch Love Is Blind on Netflix like I can do the things that I actually want to do in the evenings but like not lose that free time to just doom scrolling which I realized I was doing. So yeah.

Bethany: Yeah, it’s so easy to do. And I’ll form my to-do list, start forming it of things to add. Once I start scrolling, I’m like, “and this, and this.” And it’s like, “Whoa, okay, you just got up at 7 AM. What are you doing?”

Okay, amazing. Thank you so much. That is another golden piece from this conversation that I think is going to be so helpful. You’ve shared so much with us today. And I just, I want to wrap by, I know that you have a mentorship program for designers, a group program, it sounds like. So maybe run us through that. I’ll link all the things. And then also how people can just follow along and be in your space.

Jen: Of course. So I run a one-to-one and small group hybrid program called the Design Minimind. And you can go to hellojunecreative.co/minimind to learn all about it. It is actually going to be open for enrollment beginning November 1st of 2025, ending November 20th, or it’s going to be like right before Thanksgiving. So all the way up through Thanksgiving is going to be open enrollment. This is going to be for the fifth cohort. So I’ve been offering this program for about three years now and it sells out every time and I say that because if you’re interested I highly recommend shooting me a DM at Hello June Creative on Instagram. 

But basically what it is is a business program. It’s a six month program. Only a handful of students. So like very, very small. And there’s also one to one elements. You get like a Slack channel with me. We get to talk every day. We can voice note back and forth. It has a curriculum, but it also has that one-to-one kind of supportive aspect and what I realized from my own experience being a student in a lot of courses is that I was getting the courses, I was doing the courses, but I wasn’t actually like changing anything in my business and they were just kind of either sitting gathering dust and I wasn’t finishing them or I was like, “Wow, that’s a really great idea.” And then like the operations of the studio would sweep me away and I would never actually change anything. 

So the program is built for people to be able to see and implement the things that they learn together alongside other students that are working through the same thing in addition to the one-to-one support of the course creator myself. So that’s my favorite part of it is that like Slack access, but we also have an alumni Slack. We have group calls. It’s very low lift, extremely short modules. They are audio modules. So if you’re a busy mom, you can pop in a single air pod at the playground or something. You can do the course there. You can do it while you’re driving. You can do it while you’re doing dishes. Like I didn’t want it to feel like something that would take away computer time, which is just so precious to people who are working limited schedules, whether you’re a mom or not. And then there’s also an extensive resource library with actual video recordings of me doing sales calls with clients that have 10K budgets, me doing kickoff calls, every template in my business ever, my entire content calendar, every Notion template, every HoneyBook template, every contract that I have is all in that resource library. 

So it’s for people who want to do what I’m doing, which is build a studio that can support a full-time income on limited working hours. Very lifestyle first, very integrative with what you have going on outside of your company. And the fact that I’m a mom of young kids in that season of chaos, and I’m able to generate the type of revenue that I am while working the hours that I do is one of the reasons why students end up joining the program. Because they really want to relate to someone that’s like- okay, well, but I have a baby. I’m pregnant or I’ve had people that are not moms, but they have other businesses or they just want to be able to hang out and travel and work a part-time work week, you know. 

So that’s kind of like my thing and then if you’re looking for some free content and you just love listening to my voice, I do have my own podcast. It’s called Better: the Brand Designer Podcast. Bethany was on earlier this season and she’ll probably be able to link her episode below so you guys can go listen to it- such a great conversation. And we talk all things brand and web design, business development, the actual design of it. I interview like really big names in the industry. I interview very small names in the industry- anyone that I feel like is doing something really cool that I really admire I have on as guests and I also do little solo episodes updating you on studio operations, clients. 

We actually have a really fun podcast- I’ve said that might have already gone live at the time you guys are listening to this. It’s our annual spooky client stories episode. So we have listeners submit scary stories from clients and then we read through them and react to them and it’s really fun. I did that with my production designer Audrey this year so that one’s gonna be either coming out soon or already- I guess go look for that.

Bethany: You’ve done that before, right? Because I think I’ve listened to that. 

Jen: I have. 

Bethany: Yeah, I was like, I think that was one of the first couple episodes I picked when I first found your podcast, because I was like, that sounds fun. Yeah.

Jen: They’re fun. They’re like a fun like tea style episode, but it’s also, you know, we frame it in such a way that you can actually learn a lot from those podcast episodes. And so those are fun ones to get into. 

And then of course, every season we’re about to start our 13th season next year. At the end of every season, we do an inbox questions episode. If you love like Q&A style, rapid fire, you want a lot of really just tangible takeaways, those episodes are a great place to start. I’m sure Bethany will link a couple below. 

And then if you’re just about getting connected, I have a close friends list on my Instagram for designers only. So if you’re a designer and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I want some behind the scenes stuff”, you can send me a DM at Hello June Creative on Instagram and just say, “Hey, I heard you on Bethany’s podcast. I would love to be on your close friends list. The podcast told me to do it.” It’s not weird, I promise. I have those DMs every single week and we have fun on Close Friends. I talk about behind the scenes stuff, client work, sneak previews, weird inquiries I get, stuff that I don’t really want like the greater Instagram community to see, but stuff that would be really fun and interesting for designers only. So if you are curious about that, then send me a DM on Hello June Creative, and that’s mainly the place that I hang out, is Instagram.

Bethany: Amazing. Okay, amazing. Thank you so much. Yes, all links will be below. I just appreciate your time and energy. And I think for any designers listening, this is going to be so helpful structurally just to hear from someone with so much experience too. So thank you so much.

Jen: Of course, thank you so much for having me!  This was so fun. I am so excited for this to come out and just love getting to chit chat. Long form audio is my absolute favorite content medium. So the opportunity to be able to just sit and chat, you know, is just amazing. So thank you. I really appreciate it.

Bethany: Yeah, of course!